Using intersectionality to increase equity: a discussion about the Equity Change Project

[Introductions]

Phil: Welcome to this Research in Practice podcast. Today we'll be looking at how we consider intersectionality to increase equity in adult social care. My name's Phil and I'm from the Research in Practice team. And I'm joined today by Clenton and Gerry. Now before we get into the conversation proper, I'm going to ask the two of them to tell us a little more about themselves. So perhaps starting with Clenton, I think.

Clenton: Thank you very much. My name's Clenton Farquharson, and a bit about me. I'm a person who draws on care and support. Also, I run a disabled user led organisation in my home town of Birmingham. And then, a national perspective, I am the assistant director of Think Local Act Personal that looks at personalisation and co-production and, and community based support. I mean, looking from the lived experience, what good looks like from the perspective of people who draw on care and support. So equity and intersectionality are really important.

Phil: Fantastic. Gerry?

Gerry: Hi. I'm Gerry Nosowska. I'm a social worker, and I work for myself now. I run a little consultancy called Effective Practice, do quite a lot of work with Research in Practice as an associate, and I've been involved with them in this Change Project on using intersectionality for equity, and working alongside Clenton and Suryia on that project.

Phil: Wonderful. Great to have you both with us today. So what we'll be covering in the podcast is looking at the background to the equity project and how we hold conversations around intersectionality, and also how intersectionality aligns with social care theories in practice. But before I start, I just want to say that the podcast contains or could contain some difficult conversations around inequality.

So it's really important that we take care of ourselves. If today is a bad time for you to listen to this podcast, then please be kind to yourself and listen to it when you're ready. It can be both important and difficult to take a break with the nature of our work, but it is particularly key in terms of retaining the capacity to properly hear and listen to people's experiences.

So if you don't stop and take a breath, there is a risk that these feelings can overwhelm you or that you can become desensitised. Also, you might want to have someone in mind that you can speak to after the podcast. If it has stirred up some strong feelings, someone that you work with or another person that you can offload to.

So with that being said, I'll just give a quick background to, Change Projects from Research in Practice, and they tend to bring together groups or partners to explore pressing challenges and priorities. They are led by experts in the topic who bring a development group together to test learning from research and practice experience. It's a very practical approach to generating helpful tools and materials.

[Background to the Change Project]

Gerry, why run a change project on equity?

Gerry: The initial idea actually came from Research in Practice partners, which are mostly Local Authority adult social care services. And the request was to support people working in social care to practice in ways that tackle some of the really big inequities around. Particularly racism, and that seemed like a complex and kind of sufficiently sort of deep and broad topic that the Change Project model would work really well with it. So Research in Practice looked to see what it could offer that was complementary to all the things that are going on in the sector to try to really overcome the discrimination and oppression that's built into our society, but in a way that would offer something additional or kind of, yeah, that would bring something new, something extra to that.

Intersectionality is something that Research in Practice has been writing about and holding workshops on for quite some time and is very fortunate to have associates like Clenton and Suryia, who have got a real depth of wisdom and lived experience around these topics. So that was where the kind of scope for intersectionality came from. And the Change Project starts, that process starts with an expert knowledge exchange, which brought together people with research and practice and lived experience and policy backgrounds. And we had that conversation about what can intersectionality offer to tackle equity? And it's really about enhancing and deepening the work that's already going on, and bringing a kind of new set of tools and approaches to system change that we know is needed.

So from that expert knowledge exchange, we put together a development group. Different Local Authorities, practitioners and managers came together and worked with Suryia and Clenton and looked at how the theory and practice of equity could be made real in practice and in organisations and across social care. And from those really rich conversations came the pilot resource, and we tried that out and sent that out to people across the country to kind of comment on and revise, and kind of bring those tools, examples and ideas that we were using to life.

And so we've come up with the final resource now. So it's really been a kind of, bottom up approach in that sense. Yeah. It's been very people's… people sharing really kind of… wonderfully sharing their experience and their wisdom and kind of weaving together this resource.

[What is intersectionality?]

Phil: So intersectionality as a term is something that maybe some people are unfamiliar with. I know I certainly was until I joined Research in Practice. I wonder if we could talk a little to that. And to cover what is intersectionality, aligned with equity and allyship? And what drew you into thinking about intersectionality and why is it been important to you both?

Clenton: For me, intersectionality represents me, if that makes sense. Multiple identities. I've got… a Black disabled man, you know, and my identities intersect. I mean, I'm always asked, you know, to you know, which identity am I representing? And, so, and I always turn around and say, I'm Clenton, myself, and how I describe intersectionality... it's a bit like… imagine my home town. My hometown is Birmingham, and we've got this famous junction called the Spaghetti Junction. And at the… intersectionality, also known as multiple identities, that, cross-disadvantage and oppression. But if you imagine you're driving on a, a really busy road and suddenly you come to a place where the road splits into many different directions that… well, the analogy I use to describe intersectionality, I mean, it's like a big, mess of roads going all over the place and under each other, and like, for me, like I said, like a giant tangle of spaghetti. Now if you imagine, each of those roads represents a different part of a person's identity. For example, some people might identify as a female, some identify as, Black or Asian minority ethnic. Some have disability and some might come from low income backgrounds. And just like how each road in that spaghetti junction leads to a different place. So for me, each part, of a person's identity can lead to different experiences and challenges. So for example, someone who is a Black woman might face different challenges than someone who is a white man, for example.

And for me in social care, and especially social care in England, it's really important to understand how all of those different parts of identity and especially my identity come together. And because that can all affect how I experience the world and what support I might need, and also how I navigate, the system of care and support in England.

Phil: Thank you for that. Thank you. And, Gerry, any points to add into this sort of intersectionality, equity and allyship, and how that was all drawn together?

Gerry: Yeah. When we... when we started the Change Project, as well as doing that expert knowledge exchange, we did a evidence scope just to look at, inequity across adult social care and where that happens and who it's happening to, what the differences are. And what that showed really clearly is that there is… there is inequity across, across the board. What your experiences are, what your outcomes in life are, is affected by, by who you are. And the response of services is also affected by who you are. So services themselves aren't free of inequity. And the important thing about intersectionality is that it makes that visible. It's a way of seeing not just the kind of different strands of people's identity, but also to see how… that is affecting people's experiences and how oppression and disadvantage is… is impacting on them and holding them back, really. So it builds on anti-oppressive practice to kind of show the richness and, and complexity of, of the, disadvantages that people can face.

Crenshaw says that it's a lens through which you can identify power. And that's just so important for us because if, as we were asked by partners in Local Authorities, people really want to make their services and their response to people equitable so that people have the same kinds of experiences and the same kind of opportunities, no matter who they are, then you have to start by overcoming those things that hold people back and the things in within your services that hold people back and stop them having those outcomes and experiences. And to do that, you have to be able to see the barriers, and the barriers are made visible through intersectionality. So that's why it's so crucial.

[Creating spaces to talk about intersectionality]

Phil: Right. And so at the beginning of the resource, I think you recognise that intersectional discussions can be challenging because they're underlined with emotion, particularly if we have someone who has experienced discrimination or oppression. Or it can also be painful, to recognise the part that we can play in, you know, in perpetuating inequity. So from your experience, how do you create safe spaces for people to be able to hold these, well, they're challenging discussions, aren't they? And they're challenging for a reason. But how do we create these safe spaces? Clenton, I wondered if you could answer that.

Clenton: For me, to create the safe spaces, you have to build trust, and so to build trust is all to do with relationships. And if you think about social care, it's built on relationships. So relationships take time to build. So feeling safe that you can be who you are. Your real, authentic self doesn't just happen overnight. So we have to think about the intentional actions we do to build that environment.

Phil: Yeah. And so for people who access the resource while they read the resource rather than discussing in groups. Gerry, do you have any tips about how to manage the challenges that may arise when engaging with these challenging ideas?

Gerry: We've tried to be really upfront in the resource about the fact the intersectional work and trying to tackle inequity is emotional because it's bound up not just with your professional kind of ethics and practice, but also your life - like your lived experience and then the personal experience. So we say at the start to be attentive to that, really, and to recognise that you're going to be navigating emotions. And then throughout the resource we put in, kind of quite a lot of information and guidance, I guess, and tools and things to support people with that, whether you're doing things in a group or as you say, looking at it on your own. So it starts off with some principles, about how to engage with intersectionality, which is about kind of recognising that you've got something important to offer and that other people do as well, and that it's an exchange. And thinking about, kind of virtues, I guess, ethics, like courage and, compassion. And then there's some guidance about how you might have a conversation, and the kinds of principles and approaches to bring to that. One of them is about recognising when you need, or others need, to take a step away and seek support.

There is also a whole section in the resource about supporting people with intersectional work and to practice in a way that's… that's aimed at everyone, but it seems particularly has messages in there for supervisors and managers. And there's also a section for leaders about how to kind of support people to embed thinking on intersectionality into their organisation, to support their kind of equality, diversity and inclusion work. And so there's a lot in there about attending to those principles, recognising when people need support, using mechanisms like supervision and self-care and also role modelling that to others. I mean, I think the thing for me, because my experience is very different from those of my… kind of co-project leads. Suryia and Clenton both come from... a much more kind of deeply rooted, wisdom and knowledge about intersectionality. For me, it was newer. And so the challenge for me was about... more about recognising privilege and inequity in my life that I then had to kind of, work with. And I think, you know, I've been a social worker for 20 years, and social work's always been about trying to advance equity. I think one of the things I had to then kind of do is dig deeper, and recognise the... the need for... to do more work for myself about this. And that can be a whole range of emotions, can’t it? It can be embarrassing, frustrating, you know, challenging. But it's also, I suppose, hanging on to the purpose of this, you know? If we really are invested in a better society and that vision of everyone living a full, thriving life, then this is work that needs to happen. And you know, if you look around you, there's people everywhere doing the work, that can inspire you to keep going as well.

[How does intersectionality fit with other approaches in adult social care?]

Phil: Right, great. So looking at it squarely, you know, in the, in the social care practice realm, then how does it… how does intersectionality fit with other approaches in adult social care practice? Are there particular theories or ways of working that align with intersectional approaches? Clenton?

Clenton: For me, trauma-informed practice aligns with intersectionality because you need to understand how some of those experiences affect one's identity. So that aligns… there is another [tool] in, in practice that people talk about, the intersectional grace model [Social GGRRAAACCEEESSS ] that looks at intersectionality through that lens. There are some different models out there that lends itself quite uniquely to social care.

Gerry: So in the Change Project, the primary kind of practice intervention that we talk about is allyship, and allyship as a mode of practice. So there's a lot in the resource about that. What it is and how you can embed it within social care, and allyship flows from intersectionality. Because intersectionality, as I said, is that lens of seeing power and the impact of power and the things that are holding people back. And then you want to take action. And in order for that action to be something different than just using power again, you need to share it and you need to enable and empower and work as an ally.

So allyship is about learning from lived experience - from the knowledge that people have about their own lives and their own histories and acting alongside them. It's also about using privilege and power and position to do what you're uniquely able to do. So if you're a practitioner, what you can do if you're a manager or supervisor, leader, what you can do, and so that fits completely with co-production. It's taking and learning from lived experience and then doing things with people. It's also very relationship-based. It's very strengths-based because you're alongside this person. It's their voice. It's their action. You're with them in that. And also, you're using your own strengths in that way. So it's about fulfilling potential. And it also fits really strongly with intersectionality, fits really strongly in allyship, fits really strongly with the social model of disability and recognising that people are held back by the context that they're in. So the intersectional lens, when you do see the struggles that people are facing, it's not about locating those in them. It's locating those in the context around them. So there's a whole section in the resource about changing the system as well, which Clenton talks a lot about. So you're doing better things, yeah.

Phil: Clenton, did you have anything to add to that?

Clenton: Just on the point of, power and the power imbalance is really important to understand, what power we carry. You know, especially if you're a professional, you know, how do you equalise the power? And what I mean by that is understanding… are you going into conversations with people, power over them and especially, well, thinking about how assessments, how a caring support plan, how you hold the conversations with people who do care and support. Now think about the difference between power over and then Gerry talks about power with - that the power with is totally different from power over.

And then there's another shift. And this goes into the space where we talk about a lot about co-production; power alongside. You know, so it really plays out in social care. And as practitioners, how we understand that power imbalance, and how we carry that, you know, privilege, within spaces that we're trying to hold and serve the people that, you know, we're trying to make things better for.

Phil: Great, great. Moves then, fittingly, on to the last question for the podcast today, which is, given that you've been talking about the intersectional lens, I'm just wondering what examples you have from your own experience about applying that intersectional lens, and has that had an impact on your practice or indeed the support you've received? I don't know who'd like to speak to that.

Clenton: Can I just pick up? I don't think I answered Gerry’s point when she talked about doing better things. And if we think about, what would it look like if we did better things? I… what comes to mind is that Albert Einstein quote when he talks about the significant problems we have cannot be solved by the same level of thinking with which we created them.

And so for me, for embracing intersectionality, doing better things in social care is really important. And to do that, I think we need to think about our journey towards progression and improvement. We often find ourselves striving to do things better. We have to… we search for innovative solutions and challenge the existing norms and think about ways to make positive change.

However, amidst the pursuit, we sometimes overlook a critical aspect. And that's the power of doing better things in social care through intersectionality. And that's why for me, intersectionality, let's say, as a concept, it is championed by, you know, educationalists, scholars and activists, alike. But it teaches us that the complexity of our identities and experience must be considered when we're addressing social issues.

So in this, when it comes to conversations, we need to explore why. We need to embrace the intersectionality and is not just vital, but also goes beyond our comfort zones of what we know to explore what that might mean in the field of improving social care and making things better for people.

Phil: Fantastic. That's really well articulated. I just wonder, then, Gerry, just coming back to that, examples of applying an intersectional lens. I wonder if you had any that you'd like to share.

Gerry: Yeah. I mean, this is a really good question for reflection, isn't it for anyone? About who do you have examples through experience about when an intersectional lens has had an impact? And this project has actually been where I've really kind of gained insight into intersectionality. I did not know much about it, you know, a few years ago. And one of the main things that I've been reflecting on as I've gone through the project is the amount that my practice, whether it was direct practice in social work or how I've been as a manager or as a… you know, in other roles, how that's been conditioned by who I am and my situation and how that's meant that I've often missed the importance of the intersecting experience of the people that I've worked with. And so I can look back at practice - a social worker, management or in the work I've done to support practice, and kind of think about where I've been an intersectional ally and where haven't I been, and the things that kind of come to mind are the times that my own experience have made me insightful. For example, when I've been working with someone with a Polish background, I'm with older people, and where there were people from the Polish community in Sheffield when I started out as a social worker. I was… I know that added a dimension to my practice because there was a kind of resonance of experience and understanding of the impact of that life story on people.

But equally, I know when I look back on practice in those days that there were pain… there were people where I didn't understand the situation, knowledge and experience, and I didn't seek the right support to respond in the best way possible. So, for example, someone who has an asylum seeking background that I wasn't able to engage with in that way.

And it's the same as a supervisor. With some members of staff, I know that I should have worked harder to understand, and sought to support more rather than… I think, what the trap that you can fall into sometimes as... as a manager, as that sort of equity as treating people all with a sense of fairness, rather than kind of thinking about the barriers that people might face.

So I think the major thing that's helped me in terms of support has been colleagues, including… I've got a absolutely brilliant supervisor at the moment with whom I have a lot of conversations about intersectionality and how that's impacting on the way people's voices are heard or not, how to amplify people's voices or step aside in some situations, or be more alongside in others. And I think in social care, we've got some really great thinkers and role models who are pushing the sector to change. I know when I was in the British Association of Social Workers, when I was on the board, it was people on the board who pushed us to increase representation, which we actually did by appointing people to the board. Which then led to other people coming forward. So you know, I think Suryia, who led on this change project, that absolute inspiration, Clenton’s an inspiration. And there's other people pushing for equity across social care. So when I kind of reflect on where intersectionality has enhanced my practice, a lot of it is thanks to people around me who are offering that kind of wisdom and insight.

So I would just really encourage people to use the resource, because one of the key tenets of allyship is to take accountability for your own education and your own learning. And this is a way of doing that. This is… I think this resource will really help people to enhance their understanding.

Phil: Brilliant. And I'm sure it will. Absolutely will. We're rapidly approaching the end of this podcast. Clenton, I just wondered if you had any final words, around the equity project itself or anything else you wanted to add?

Clenton: I just… for me, just to remind people that equity in social care is like ensuring everyone has the right size shoes that fit them comfortably in life. And what I mean by that is, just as you and your friends have different shoe sizes, people have unique needs. And the analogy I always try to use is this: imagine, you're in a shoe shop, and they only stock, only size nine shoes, leaving you to struggle to find a fit while your friends thrive.

And what I mean by that, my… I always struggled because my size feet are size 14. Now think about how hard that is to get a size 14 feet. Now equity means recognising these differences and providing tailored support, just as a shop should offer various sizes. It's about fairness and offering equal opportunities for success, even if it means different levels of support.

And that's what we need to grasp onto and just... I’d like to leave the listeners with… it builds on when I talked about - better things and just, we need to think about… let's not settle for simply doing things better, but let us strive to do better things together with intersectionality as our guiding light. We can forge a path towards a more inclusive, equitable, and compassionate future in social care.

Phil: Thank you. And, I'd like to thank Gerry and Clenton for, a wonderful podcast today illuminating on the Equity Change Project. And I'd like to thank you, dear listeners, for listening to the end of the podcast today. You know, we always, want to know what you think. So you can email us, or you can tweet us @Research IP that's @Research IP.

And thank you very much.